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By PubliusRock
This is a repost and continuation of a thread TMD and myself have been having. . that we are moving to here.

Read in order to get an idea of where we are - -and then we can develop and move it from there

FIRST - We started with this thread-

Well it has been quite a while and going anon here and we have written up a much more detailed spec which counters many of the obvious and immediate flaws in the discussion - but am looking for bold collaborators with an anarchistic (remember that boys - now y'all just waiting for wall street and etfs ) flare to flesh this to reality.

This is what we have so far in Summary

Variation of POW where instead of working on puzzle transactions, it works on brute forcing the top 10 BTC wallets
The proof of brute forcing then generates POC coins in blocks- same same but different as BTC blocks are awarded. Likely we will do 21m at a similar/same ratio if that math makes sense.

So at the base- it is a competing POW to BTC's except that the work is "useful" in the idea that it is trying to brute force BTC wallets containing 100K+ coins

Now if in the unlikely event a wallet is brute forced (yes - we are aware of the odds) - - we would like the following to happen

a- Each POC wallet is linked/registered to a sister BTC wallet already
b- At the moment of brute force, the opened account is drained to a drop wallet and a snapshot of the POC network is taken - which includes the POC wallet amount and linked BTC accounts
c - all of the BTC in the drop wallet is then allocated to the linked BTC wallets on a proportional basis. So if there are 1000 POC in circulation and you have 100 of them - when a 10 BTC wallet gets drained - you get 1 BTC.

Why this is cool: It is fully decentralized, censorship resistant and immutable.

Your Frequently Asked Questions:

Q: Is this Illegal?
A: Depends who you ask and where.

Q: What about funds that are taken?
A: That is assuming that a key will ever be found- common consensus says the number of attempts required is (n-1). But it if actually is found ,then there is an immutable process in place that automatically distributes the BTC to wallets linked to those holding POC - is this the fault of the wallet holder or the network? (as the "crackminer" who found the key will be anon and receive no special love)

Q: What about Bitcoin, don't you love Bitcoin and want to see it thrive, why do you want to destroy it - are you an awful/immoral person?
A: I am by nature a Bitcoin Maximilist and believe that it is the foundations of our future global economies. However as a true Maximilist - I want to use our collective resources and braincycles to try to break the very thing we follow. Why? because someone else is or will - and if it can be broken then we need to break it to pieces and discard it sooner than later.

Q: Why top 10 wallets - why not just all work at a puzzle address to prove the system.
A: Make the stakes real and if a crack is found- it will destroy the system we have now and force evolution (better sooner than later) And the reality is that we will be creating a shadow currency to BTC (just to shut the discussion down right away- BCH is not a shadow currency - it is a poorly executed social engineering troll attempt) The POC currency will grow and thrive and for this to achieve solidity in the heartminds of the masses then it needs to come with the "lottery ticket" element. Making it have the promise of real financial rewards will have the flip effect of making POC a viable currency of its own right (rather than a college dorm room project which most of these "brute force" projects seem to end as)

What we think will practically happen is that there will be a way for people to also manually enter public/private keys and then spray wallet contents to the network. There are many different cases how/why this could happen including spite and charity.

One Higher level question that is beyond my knowledge:

-Is there a way to develop the environment which allows the crack attempts to be self-optimized by the node running it - so for instance if one crackminer wants to use CPUS and another wants to use GPUS. this allows for innovation and scale in ways we could never imagine.

Obviously all attempts would need to go through the network in some way so that a few things happens
- they get POC coins generated for the attempt
- IF a crack is found - it is immutably done by the "network" and not the individual rig that executed it.

Lots to think about obviously and I have more detailed specs and questions, but just throwing the above info out there to get started and see where we can take it.

replies to come in the next posts
User avatar
By PubliusRock
This was TMC's Reply -


How about a PoPasswords, PoPpin md5 hashes, maybe even put it on a rotation to pop specific hashes like wordpress and magento

It could be both a PoW and PoStorage, PoW is pretty self explanatory, but with Proof of Storage, you could challenge miners to prove they are storing hashes, there is a few coins that do Proof of Storage with random garbage, would be neat if you could jump on the network, drop an encrypted password file, and have the network return cracked passwords

And then mine- and this is where we are now- - - -

So have been thinking about your reply - and the end game here

To put it very clearly- the end goals I envision for the PoC project is

- Fully Decentralized - same as BTC (not same as ETH which is more or less centralized) - goes way beyond us - we stay Anon more or less.
-Something to daily challenge the immutability of BTC which by defacto result will create a competing and lucrative coin. <-> POC or something
- I would like to create the mining/cracking in a way similar to BTC to encourage early adoption and rewards for early entrants.

So to respond to the idea about popping other things such as WP, I want this to be a full moonshot - top 5 coin valuation - - and I think that if we deviate from anything other than a BTC brute force we lose the purists. I don't want to create a generic decentralized cracking tool - thou that can be cool - It is not a moon shot necessarily because then you are just breaking into peoples "stuff" - with the ideal of PoC you put miners/programmers/coincollectors to work with a new "football" that can "be the next BTC" = it is all about "proving the security of the BTC network" so you appeal to the ideology of the Maximilist - but the reality is that they all know it can make them rich because these coins move up and forward by mutual adoption .

I'm a bit of a realist.

So that all being said- - I am not an active dev myself- I can bring vision/architecture and the realities of psychology and marketing

Would need to make a "campaign" of sorts to start winning over mindshare of Devs - -

If this sounds like something you would like to put your brain cycles into I have the following questions which need to be answered by someone

- For ideal optimization and allowing for creativity in the nodes It would somehow need to be written in the way that allows a node to attempt cracks in whatever way they find most efficient - like you said - a Proof of Storage may be the defacto answer here - - However that leaves the following questions

i- are we actually storing the keys already tested? Is that efficient thing to do? do we want to do this even? Is it needed statistically to increase chances of a crack - - -or practically for verification - some sort of merkle tree of trillions of keys. Im not sure but the initial idea that I had how this could work is

Public Key = A
Private Key Attempt = A(n)
with n being the SALT of sorts - which goes in order 1,2,3,4,5 etc..
not sure if that makes sense written down - but i see it working in my mind at least

that way we dont actually actually have to store each private key tried -rather we just know which # we are on in attempts and each # in the sequence A(5) will return a pre-determined key attempt based on what A is (public key) with the SALT being the number 1,2,3,4,5 etc.. .

The trick will be getting nodes to not cross streams- maybe they can place requests at the gen of each block or something based on their known processing power... i dunno this is a small issue thou comparability. . . and then what happens when our SALT .. n = 1,000,000,0000,000,000 Is that still cool?

ii - How would this be wound up in a way that if a key match is actually found that it immutably and instantly dumps it to a drop wallet that then distributes it immutably and instantly to all the BTC wallets linked to POC wallets - I would assume the miner software would need to be the one actually submitting the crack attempt for this to be immutable - -and then obviously nodes would need to be running unaltered software - I am not sure how current networks BTC/ETH verify a node is running perfectly unaltered software -

iii - How would the actual POC<-> BTC wallet link/reg happen and be stored - likely some manual process and it all stored on the network - or. . just to be a fuckery - if it is technically possible, let POC users choose their own Public key and tell them to just match it to their BTC account - so all BTC dumps already know where to go without an extra layer of registration.

I think those are the major gaps in my understanding of how the architecture can be developed - the rest as far as I can see with current optics is just arranging and choosing already existing concepts - If those can be sorted with proof, then the beginnings of a white paper can be developed.

Let me know if this interests you further.

User avatar
By tmc
I posted a question on stack exchange, lets see what they come back with, im running some preliminary numbers to see what our goals should be
User avatar
By tmc
So I think we might not be to far off from cracking at least one address...

I posted that question and got a response, from that response, if we had 100,000 GPU's online, cracking at 50 million addresses a second, it would only take 103 years to crack one of the 22.4 million addresses online today...

16,288,355,888,451,313,684,419/5000000000000/60/60/24/365 ... -addresses

If you figure the rate at which GPU speeds are increasing, a network like this, in 10 years might be capable of cracking multiple addresses per year, and by that time, it would be worth the money =]

You still with me?

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